Professor Begala demonstrates how it’s done.
BEGALA: Well, I think it was — first, he was trying to do three different things, right? Say we’re going to withdraw from Iraq, but we’re going to surge into Afghanistan, but we’re going to withdraw from there, too. But then, we’re going to take care of folks here at home. I want to pick up, though, on this point that Ari makes about the surge, because it is staggering to me. First off, the surge was only necessary because President Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld went to war with too few troops, because they wanted to prove General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, wrong. That’s why we needed it in the first place.
Second, it could have never succeeded without the preceding Sunni awakening. Iraqis themselves had to decide. It wasn’t the American surge and then — that cured it. It was the Sunni awakening.
But I’ll make a deal with President Bush. We’ll give you all the credit for the surge if you take half of the blame for the lies that got us into the war, by which I mean Iraq — excuse me, Ari, by which I mean…
FLEISCHER: No, Paul, it’s not right.
BEGALA: … by which I mean Ari himself saying Iraq was an imminent threat to America, by which the president of the United States saying it was a mushroom cloud that could become a smoking gun, by which I mean the threat of unmanned aerial drones that Saddam supposedly had that would gas America, the connections that they allege which were false between al Qaeda and — and Saddam’s regime.
So, you know, there was so much they got wrong about this. Some of it just was botched, and some of it was deeply dishonest. And the notion that somehow George Bush is owed any moment of grace here is appalling to the history.
FLEISCHER: Neither you nor anybody else, including your old boss, Bill Clinton, challenged George Bush when he said that, because the intelligence that they all saw, too, led them to the same conclusion. So I think seven years…
BEGALA: You know they didn’t see…
(CROSSTALK)
FLEISCHER: First off…
BEGALA: They didn’t see all the intelligence, because you guys weren’t sharing it.
FLEISCHER: This is the night that President Obama said thanks to the military; our troops are coming home. I was gracious enough to praise President Obama for saying that. It’s an appropriate moment for our country to bring them home and to welcome them home.
But for you to say that President Bush lied about this, Paul, that is exactly the type of divisiveness we’re trying move beyond in this country. When you know as well as I do he followed the intelligence that he was given by the CIA.
BEGALA: He manipulated — he manipulated and cherry picked the intelligence…
FLEISCHER: No.
BEGALA: … as did Mr. Cheney, as did Mr. Rumsfeld, and that’s why 4,427 Americans are dead.
(CROSSTALK)
FLEISCHER: It was nothing to cherry pick. That’s everything we needed to know.
BEGALA: When Dick Cheney said, as he did, that Saddam has long- established ties with al Qaeda, the evidence is overwhelming, you know, the Iraq study group said no that wasn’t true.
FLEISCHER: The 9/11 Commission report said Saddam had ties to al Qaeda.
BEGALA: It’s just incredible.
FLEISCHER: The 9/11 Commission Report, it said they weren’t operational. Our point of view is never let them become operational.
BEGALA: This is — this is the thing: he was no threat to America. Ari, himself…
FLEISCHER: Now you’re changing your tune because you’re recognizing the 9/11 Commission report agreed with the president…
BEGALA: They said there were no operational links. There were none.
FLEISCHER: That’s correct. We didn’t want them to become one.
BEGALA: Well, we don’t want Canada to have operational links either. How about we go — how about we go have Operation Canadian Freedom?
No, look, this was from the beginning, it was a war of choice. It was Mr. Bush’s choice, and it was a tragic choice; 4,427 Americans are dead. Thirty-five thousand Americans are wounded, plus those suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, plus those suffering from traumatic brain injury. This has been a catastrophe for America, a catastrophe for our armed services who served with such heroism. And for Mr. Fleischer to sit here and expect a pat on the back, it is appalling. It is, as we would say in Texas, I guess it’s chutzpah.
FLEISCHER: In Paul Begala’s view of the world, we’d all be better off and safer off if Saddam Hussein was still running Iraq.
BEGALA: And those 4,427 Americans were alive.
FLEISCHER: Any time anybody loses their lives in the military, our nation suffers for it. Any one individual, anywhere.
But the point is we now have a new Iraq, an Iraq that has a chance to become a bastion of freedom and, hopefully, an Iraq that can change the Arab Middle East, so it’s a more peaceful area where wars don’t start. That’s what Iraq now gives us a chance to do. And that’s why I hope, now with the 50,000 remaining troops, we will be successful, and they don’t lose the peace in Iraq, which is…
BEGALA: And we have — we have a diminished America, a depleted America. We have a divided America. And we have, tragically, military cemeteries that are filling up. That is a hell of a price to pay to get rid of a guy who was no threat to America.
FLEISCHER: No threat to America?
BEGALA: Zero.
